Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast

Louis: Bonjour, bonjour. Welcome to another episode of everyonehatesmarketers.com, the marketing podcast for marketers, founders, and techies who are sick of shady, aggressive marketing. I’m your host, Louis Grenier.

As of 2018, Facebook is the largest media company in the history of the world even if they don’t like to call themselves as such. They’ve generated more than 27 billion of dollars in revenue in 2017. People spend an incredible amount of time on it, even your aunt is on it or even your uncle.

Today, we’re not gonna talk about this new Facebook feature that will enable you to increase commercials by 46% or how to use this weird trick to get people to look at your ads on Facebook. Instead, we’re going to talk about the key principles of Facebook Advertising. They are unlikely to change in one year or even in the next five years so you can rely on them over time even if Facebook changes their platform slightly or adds new features, you should be able to rely on them as you go.

My guest today is a freelance performance marketing manager. She specializes, in particular, in Facebook Advertising. Most of her clients are in SaaS including Techsophy, MindTitan. She contributed to major publications like AdEspresso, Content Marketing Institute, Hubspot, The Next Web, KlientBoost, etc. Finally, she created aggregateblog.com which is a blog for advanced marketers looking for actionable insights on growth marketing. Karola Karlson, welcome aboard.

Karola: Hi, thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Louis: You’re very welcome. Let’s get started. You specialize in performance marketing which, in your definition, is like tracking the results, measuring real time performance, tweaking ad campaigns and changing also the overall marketing strategy. Do you think it’s just marketing, performance marketing, or is it an actual discipline?

Karola: I think it’s more about the mindset. What people call performance marketing is marketing when you track performance and you make decisions based on your data. It’s actually not just limited to online advertising but the thing is that it’s easiest to measure marketing performance when you’re doing ads online because you have all the data. When it goes out of it, when it goes to print or television, the measurement becomes a little bit more difficult. Definitely, performance marketing is a mindset but you can actually apply it only when you can measure and track your marketing data.

Louis: I’m gonna challenge you on this in the next few minutes. Before that, I wanna go through a step by step together, that people can really use it in their business regarding Facebook Advertising because it’s something that a lot of the listeners seems to be doing. They don’t seem to get a lot of good results out of it purely because things seems to change quite a lot. But I don’t think it is, I don’t think things are changing quite a lot. I know Facebook introduces new features almost everyday but the principles of how people react to stuff and where they’re interested in and how you build relationship will never change. I’m not worried about those new features.

This is why I wanna get with you into how can we actually get new leads and new customers using Facebook Advertising? I like to go through a step by step with you. What I mean by new leads and customers is new incremental leads or customer. Meaning we’ve created them, thanks to Facebook, they didn’t buy from us, thanks to Facebook, retargeting campaign that started way before where we did some print advertising and all of that, and the last action was retargeting. I’m talking about trying to really get people interested on Facebook and creating them on Facebook and then hopefully making them buy, thanks to Facebook.

Karola: I completely agree with you on the fact that Facebook is introducing new features all the time. But if you acquire the right framework, you can always apply it regardless of all the new features.

Louis: Let’s go through that framework step by step as if you were explaining that to a company or startup that was just starting out or they have an account but didn’t know where to start.

Karola: Whenever I take on a new client and we want to start a Facebook campaign, we always start by finding our messaging because this is the most important thing that will make you succeed or fail. You have to find a unique value proposition that makes your brand shine out and what makes it different from the competition. You should really spend more than one hour on finding that message. Once you have this message, you can proceed to creating the ad designs.

When creating the Facebook Ad designs, you should not use stock photos because it just looks like any other photo on Facebook. When you are doing Facebook Ads, you should always try to find a unique design angle that is unique to your brand. Let’s say you use one specific color or you’ll have some icons or mascots that you can use. It could also be some specific graphic designs that you will apply to your Facebook Ad images.

Louis: Let me stop you right there because it’s important to take a step back. First of all, you mentioned your unique value proposition. Obviously, we are not gonna talk about how to do that today. I’ve actually had a very nice interview, I forgot her name now but I’m gonna mention it in the show notes of this episode, where we talked about how to come up with a strong value proposition by interviewing customers and understanding what they think of your brand. This episode is already published and should have been published already, like three or four weeks ago, so you can check it out.

Number one, you’re talking about your messaging. Number two, you’re talking about ad design already. Should we decide on the objective before moving onto ad design or are you gonna talk about that later?

Karola: Yes, definitely. The objective is important. I assumed that the objective is to get new customers who are not familiar with your brand and you want to find those people who will become your loyal customers.

Louis: I’m glad you’re mentioning stock photos because this is something I used to fight a lot against during marketing conferences when I was speaking there. I agree with you. Why do you think this is important, thinking of human behavior and human psychology? Why do you think having imagery that is unique to your brand is important?

Karola: If you think about Facebook news feed or Instagram news feed, it is full of pictures that people themselves are taking and also that newspaper articles are sharing and using. All of them resemble photos, that’s also what stock photos are about. If you use a stock photo in Facebook Ads, people will just think it’s another picture or article and they will scroll over it without paying too much attention. If you can create something more unique that will catch the attention of people checking out their news feeds, you will have a lot higher click through rates. That also leads to success with your ad campaign.

Louis: What are the options available to you? Stock photos are quite cheap. I think, if I remember, Facebook allows you to add stock photos directly from Facebook Ads Management, you can just add stock photos right away. As per Facebook rules, you can’t really use a lot of text on images. What are the ways to make those images unique?

Karola: One of the easiest way is, that so many big brands are using, is using some ready-made icons because you can just usually download many icons for free, you can apply them to your designs, make them the colors of your brand. If you are using icons, you might have some extra room for image copy as well. Sometimes, what they have done with some clients is to create a Facebook Ad that just has a colorful background and let’s say three to five words of copy on it and nothing else. Even those ads sometimes will form a lot better than stock photos. Everybody who knows how to use Photoshop or even Carnival or Sketch can do those ads.

Louis: That’s one option, to simplify your images by keeping it to a few words and a simple background. Have you seen anything else that seems to be something that people connect with?

Karola: You can definitely have a specialized photographer to take your product photos but this might be a little bit more expensive. If you are a small brand, you probably don’t have the budget for that. Another thing you could do is to create some videos but this is another thing that will probably take more resources than creating a simple ad design with a little bit of color and copy.

Louis: What are the cheapest options you would recommend to start with videos?

Karola: I would say you can try maybe three different creatives. One of them could be a background that’s colorful and add some copy to it and maybe also a call to action button so people will click on the ad image. The second option would be to show your product, especially if you have an online product, this will be easy. You can just take a screenshot of your product and maybe a little bit of Photoshop and it will look nice.

The third one, if you wanna do a test, you can still take a stock photo. You can apply a colorful filter to it to make it look a little bit more branded just to differentiate it from the rest of the photos on Facebook and maybe also add a call to action and some copy on that stock photo.

Louis: I think that goes back to the principle of show, don’t tell. There is one ad in particular that I still remember today, I keep a swipe file of ads that I find interesting. By that way, I would recommend every listeners to do the same. Whenever you see something, an ad or whatever that brings your attention to, that you seem to like, take a screenshot of it and add it to a note, like a note software or whatever it is like note on Mac or wherever else. Keep a track of it because then you can remember it. When it’s time to create a campaign yourself, you can use that.

I remember seeing this ad, which is a very simple video, and you mentioned sharing your product and that video can be complicated. I remember seeing this ad of this guy going through his ebook as a video. Basically, it’s a PDF that you can see scrolling down. The guy is saying, “This is this page, this is this page, this is this page, this is this page, this is this page and you can download it for free.” The ad got crazy amounts of people commenting on it and wanting to download it because he showed a product using a simple video.

Karola: That’s fascinating, it’s so simple yet so efficient.

Louis: I guess using the principle of show, don’t tell and the second principle of be your own brand, don’t copy, don’t use what everybody else is doing. You can find some ways to really showcase your product using a unique visual theme, as you mentioned, you can tweak stock photos, you can keep it very simple with a simple background and an email or a call to action or a few amount of text. Regardless, all of that, you need to test it out and see what works. That’s a very good start. Step one, you come up with your unique value proposition, we talked about that already. Step two is your unique design. What is step three?

Karola: Step three is creating a Facebook Ad account which takes about maybe 10 minutes. There are Facebook guides to help you through the entire process. I think let’s not get too technical. I would like to emphasize that you don’t really need an agency to set up your Facebook Ads because Facebook is putting so much effort into making this whole process easily understandable and effortless for all the advertisers. I would say don’t be afraid of using Facebook advertising tools, they are definitely not as complex as they might seem on the first look.

Louis: I agree with you. That’s why I always say that new features don’t really matter for Facebook or from any other software you use because exactly as you said, the only job in there is to make your life easier and to make the tool easier to use. Even if they come up with a new feature or anything like this, they will make it easy for you to use. There are always tutorials online to use it. What matters is the principle behind and the stuff that you can learn that will still be helpful in 5 or 10 years which is why we’re talking about it today.

Karola: Exactly. Let’s say you have created a Facebook Ad account, now it’s time to setup your first ad campaign. In Facebook Ads Manager, the first thing you must do is to select your campaign objective. The campaign objective will tell Facebook what is your goal, what you want to achieve with the ad campaign. There are, I think, about 10 different objectives. For many first time users, it gets a little bit confusing here because how can you choose the objective? Maybe you could get more better results with one objective but how would you know which one it is?

There is a really simple principle there. You have to choose the objective that is the closest to your marketing goal. If you want to get sales, you should select the conversions objective which will mean that Facebook will optimize your campaign so that you will get as many purchases or website signups. Maybe it’s depending on the type of your website or business. I would suggest to start with either conversions objective. If you can’t track the conversions on your website or if you can’t track the entire marketing funnel, you should start with traffic objectives so you will drive as much traffic to your website as possible.

Now that you have the objective selected, Facebook will take you to the next stage of the setup where you can setup your budget and audience. When it comes to audience, this is also a little bit tricky. It’s depending on your marketing budget. If you have a small budget, you should know your audience beforehand.

Louis: Most of the listeners will be either of the categories here. The first thing you mentioned, large companies, you don’t have to know your audience in order to start the campaign. Is that right?

Karola: Yes, you can just create a big audience. Let’s say you want to target an age demographic of people who are aged between 20 and 30. You can setup your audience, you only set the age limits and nothing else. You don’t add any specific interests to your audience, you just put the campaign running and Facebook will learn who is the best audience for you. As you get more ad campaign results, Facebook algorithms will get better at defining your audience. Let’s say you are targeting a million people, maybe Facebook will only show your ad to 50,000 who are your most potential customers.

Louis: Can you actually retrieve the information about this audience? You’re basically using a shotgun approach of some sort if you have a big budget because you can afford to waste a bit of money to let Facebook learn about it and then refine the audience. Are you able to learn from who are the audiences that are interacting the most with the ad?

Karola: Yes. I would say that this is a highly efficient way to find out who your actual audience is because you can use Facebook Audience Insights tool that will show you the demographics, interests, page likes of the people who are most engaged with your brand on Facebook.

Louis: But that doesn’t necessarily mean that those people are interacting with the ad itself.

Karola: No, not exactly. I think how it works,, also, is that you can see which people are your buyers and how they convert. But to see that data, you first need to setup Facebook Pixel on your website so that you can track the conversions. Facebook actually has a lot of great reporting tools. You can also break down your campaign results by gender or by age, I think it’s also by the city and there are definitely some more options for campaign breakdowns.

Louis: That’s something that I haven’t really heard before which is quite interesting. You could start with the shotgun approach where you basically spend a lot of money on an audience that is quite broad and you let Facebook learn from it. What you can do if you have the Facebook Pixel setup which is a small snippet of code that you can add to your website very easily, you can learn who other people have interacted or even converted with your ad and you can, as you said, go to Facebook, on the report, and learn who are those people.

You should get a much better picture of who are those people, they should be able to tell you their age, they should be able to tell you their interest, they should be able to tell you the country they live in, the level of income they have and all of that. I suppose you can then create a second campaign that is now our base on this data.

Karola: When you have a small budget, what you should do is create an audience that you narrow down by the interests. Maybe your audience is about 20,000 to 50,000 people which might still seem like a lot but it’s always better to leave some room for optimization for Facebook. If you have a small budget, let’s say maybe $20 per day, you can also do some more niche audiences and try targeting them.

Louis: Let’s go through that because this is what I wanted to say. How do you understand what your customers or potential customers are interested in? How do you typically handle that for small budget type campaigns?

Karola: It depends. If it’s a business product, you can usually target CEOs. When it’s a product that is done for, let’s say sales people, you can target people working in sales. If it’s a consumer product, you can target some other products that are widely used, that you think that your potential customers are also using. Let’s say you want to do a beauty subscription service. Obviously, you can target women aged between maybe 18 and 50. You can add as interest some beauty bloggers, some famous beauty brands that your potential audience is interested in. One of the keys is to start with the other brands that people are already using and try to target their customers.

Louis: This is something that I’ve learned from Rand Fishkin when I interviewed him on this podcast is, a good way to learn what are your potential customer interested in and who influence them is basically to ask them. You can definitely interview some of your most profitable customers, find out who influences them or what influences them. Where do they spend most of their time? Do they spend time in marketing conferences? Do they spend time listening to Tim Ferriss or Rand Fishkin? Do they spend time reading specific blogs like yours, Karola?

If you are able to ask them and make a list of all of those people and companies influencing them, it should be easier to pick too much data on Facebook with things that actually interest them. That’s the number one way to do it.

A second way that was share by Rand is to go through Twitter accounts or Facebook accounts of people that you know are your customers and are your most profitable customers, and knowing who they follow, who they retweet the most, what type of stuff are they talking about. You can draw conclusions from that as well. That’s two interesting way to get to know your audience better and to apply that on Facebook.

Karola: That sounds like a really good strategy.

Louis: We are a small business and we have this audience, we have interviewed customers to understand who influences them. How would you go about the different types of messages and ads? Are you gonna create many? Are you gonna create a few? What is your typical approach?

Karola: Whenever you create some ads and put them running, you must get a sufficient amount of conversions or results to conclude whether your ad is working or not. What you don’t want to do is create too many ads for one campaign, you will get no idea what is working and what isn’t working. When you are a small business I would say, you can create those three different ad designs but they should all use the same message. In the first phase of your Facebook campaign, you will see what type of creatives are the most efficient for you. Once you have this one creative that is working really well, you can start testing different messages with the same creative.

Louis: You start with knowing what format works the best, what type of creative works the best, then you move on to whatever message works the best. Do you try also to tweak the call to action or the thing that you will make them do?

Karola: The way I like to do Facebook Ads is to not change the call to action that much because I know what I want them to do and I try to get them to take the step. It’s a little bit more advanced but you can add multiple steps to your ad campaigns. The first one would be prospecting, then you create a remarketing campaign to target some potential leads, and then you create another campaign to convert them to paying customers. Maybe this is a little bit too advanced for this particular moment.

Louis: This is exactly where I wanted you to go which I’m glad you mentioned it because the way I asked you a question at the start was how to create incremental leads and customers. I was hoping that you would mention this. I don’t think it’s that advanced, I guess the principle behind it is not advanced, it’s the basics of marketing. If people don’t know you, if you have no credibility, if your brand is unknown, how can you expect people to trust enough to buy something that they’ve never heard from you before or that they’ve never heard of you before?

Instead, exactly as you mentioned, using a stairway approach where you start with, as you said, prospecting, you make them download a brochure of some sort or watch a quick video. For those who are actually quite interested, you set up another campaign to talk to them in particular saying, “Now that you watched this video, here is more information.” And you move on the ladder.

This is marketing 101 that is being used, this principle is being used everywhere because this is how you build trust over time. Do not expect people to buy from you without hearing from you before. I’m glad you mentioned that. I guess you can run through how you typically do that on Facebook and I guess a lot of people will be interested.

Karola: One of the new approaches that has become a popular approach in the past years is to create the campaign where the first step is a video. You show a video on Facebook, it could be a video of your product, maybe a video of a customer testimonial, a case study. It would show people why your product is good. Let’s say you run this video campaign for one week. After you have run this video campaign, you can create the next step of a campaign that retargets the people who watched your video.

When you are retargeting those people, they are already familiar with product, they have shown some interest in it and now you can ask them to get a free trial, maybe check out your product’s website, maybe even make a purchase. That completely depends how engaged those people are at the moment and whether you can make them buy at the stage or maybe you need to do another campaign for lead nurturing. In the third step of your campaign, you can get them to buy something from you.

Louis: I like very much this approach because as I said, it’s using the key principles of marketing and how people behave and think. I guess, depending on the price of your product, depending on how complex the typical sales funnel is, the length of your campaign will vary. If you’re selling a one dollar or one euro pen, you might not even need a video explaining how the pen works, you might be able to showcase the ad to ask them to buy. But if you’re selling these premium, Supreme $800 pen, you might wanna show a video, you might wanna show a brochure to those people who viewed the video, you might wanna add benefits as a self-campaign, etcetera.

Taking your time to nurture people, not expecting them to convert straight away, is probably one of the biggest thing I can say. That’s works for anything, not Facebook only. Taking your time, building trust.

Karola: Yes. One of the key reasons why some Facebook campaigns fail is because marketers just ask people to buy on the first engagement which always doesn’t work.

Louis: That applies to small businesses. You mentioned the large businesses where you do can afford more shotgun approach and you learn from the Facebook algorithm. Would you say that there is no difference there or would you say that large businesses should also leverage this step by step approach?

Karola: Yes, definitely. I would say that you can always try it first, this one-step approach. Maybe it’s working for your product, maybe people will grasp immediately what it is and they will want it and they will buy it. You should always try the one-step approach, maybe you don’t need all the three steps. It’s depending on your business type, on your product. If it has a low power of entry, for example it’s an app, a game or some kind of business app that you just have to download and sign up to and pay nothing, you might only need one-step, not three steps.

But definitely, having this three-step campaign will help you get more people on board. If you have large budgets, you probably want to have a large audience and user base. As a large brand, you have to do many different types of campaigns that attract different audiences. That’s another story. You will have to come up with new ideas constantly.

Louis: Karola, we’ve been talking about the step by step methodology to create an ad campaign. You talked about this popular approach on step one, sharing a video on Facebook showcasing your product, step two retargeting the people who watched the video, and so on and so forth. The next thing I wanted to ask you were more about, from your experience, why do you think Facebook campaigns fail? What do you see to be the traditional mistakes people, businesses make on Facebook?

Karola: The biggest mistake that I see advertising making in all advertising channels basically is that they simply don’t have a good ad messaging and they don’t have good ad visuals. What I always do with my clients, what I recommend to everybody is to not focus that much on audience targeting or campaign optimization but get your ad messaging and ad images right so that people want to click on them, they immediately understand what it is that you are selling.

As the right people start clicking on your ads, basically, Facebook can optimize your ad delivery so that it will be shown to the right people. One of the biggest reasons why your ad campaigns might be failing is because people are not clicking on your ads because they are not looking good or simply the messaging is not attractive to the audience. There is mistake number one that is quite easy to avoid by AB testing and reading about the best practices.

Another mistake would be editing the ad campaigns too often. If you are really interested in doing Facebook Advertising, you probably keep looking at your campaign results every two hours. If you keep optimizing and changing the campaign too often, then Facebook algorithms can’t start delivering in high volumes because they have to adapt and change all the time. Another maybe counter intuitive mistake that advertisers make is to change their campaigns too often.

Louis: That’s something I tend to do and I know a lot of people are doing is you look at your ads everyday and you’re tweaking things.

Karola: You can’t help it, you want to fix it.

Louis: How long would you need for the ads to be running to make sure that Facebook starts to be able to optimize it or to show it to the right people or to tell you if it’s a good ad or all of that.

Karola: What Facebook is saying is that it needs at least 24 hours but that’s a really long time, sometimes the campaign is over after 24 hours. What I usually recommend to my clients is to wait for at least three hours, even better if six hours, and then you can take a look if something is happening. If it looks like that your ads are getting some results, then let it run until the next day and then decide how to optimize and what to change.

Louis: Are there any other mistakes that you see clients, people do in general?

Karola: There are different smaller mistakes but usually when you get the basics right and you have good ads, then you can’t really go wrong because Facebook has a really good advertising product, I would say it’s the best one out there.

Louis: Yes, it’s the best one out there but there’s a big but. I wanna talk about this now. The thing, Karola, is we are recording this section of the episode a few weeks after the first section. If you’re listening to this episode right now, you might’ve noticed maybe a switch in the audio or whatever it is, the weather might have changed the way we talk or whatever.

We are recording that in March of 2018. Recently, there was this whistleblower who talked about how Facebook was used to basically manipulate people and get to know their personal details and all of that to an extent that wasn’t the right extent, that have an impact on their privacy and all of that. It is the best advertising tool out there, it’s a very [...] question I’m gonna ask you but do you think it’s also the best because it’s not taking really good care of our own privacy?

Karola: I would say that probably all that big technologies or services that you are using are collecting so much data about you. Of course Facebook is really good at collecting your data, I’m definitely not justifying that corporations are collecting lots of data and maybe sometimes using it irresponsibly. From other perspective, the reason why Facebook Ads are working that well and why you see so many relevant that’s on Facebook is because of that data.

From marketing perspective, what this does is that you don’t get ads that you don’t want to see and you don’t get to see that many products that make no sense to you. It’s a difficult question and I’m not choosing sides. It’s really, really difficult to say where it goes the line, what data you can collect and what you shouldn’t collect.

Louis: I agree. I know it’s a difficult question. I can see in the future a shift happening where people are going to have more control towards the data that they are willing to share in order to receive the right information, I know you agree. It’s actually nice to be able to browse Facebook and only get mostly relevant content even though on the hand it creates this bubble where you feel that everybody agrees with you and that you’re living in this world that is not as diverse as you think it is.

It’s true that it’s also nice to have relevant content given to you. We’ll see how it goes, I can foresee that there’s gonna be a major shift towards users at least being able to control more of their data right now with GDPR coming up and the data privacy laws in Europe. I think Facebook is gonna have to make a lot of changes in their platform. It’s true that in 2018, at least to the date that we are recording this episode, it’s one of the most effective advertising platform out there.

Moving on to another subjective briefly, I’m curious to know from your perspective, from your experience that you’ve been working with clients quite a lot on Facebook and all those stuff, have you used any shady, sleazy, aggressive marketing tactics in the past that you can admit of?

Karola: I really haven’t done anything really shady because usually, when you have a good product and you know how to do great advertising, then you don’t need to do so much hacking, you just do your job as a marketer. I’m usually not looking for shortcuts and growth hacks but rather I’m looking for strategies that I can scale and grow.

Louis: That’s a nice answer. I agree with you, actually. Exactly as you said, once, as a marketer, you have a good product that you can market, it’s very unlikely that you start using shady, sleazy, short term tactics to trick people in buying your stuff because your product is good enough and you don’t need to do it. I like this answer, I agree with you. This is why I think it’s so important for people who want to get into marketing to make sure to choose a company to work for with a good product.

That might be difficult to find but you must make sure that the company you’re working for sells a product that you like using yourself, that’s one of they key advice I usually give to people who ask me how do I get into marketing and how do I become a good marketer.

Karola: I completely agree on the point that you have to believe in the product and then it will be so much easier to understand what makes people to buy it.

Louis: Karola, you’ve started a blog, it’s called Aggregate blog a few years ago. Was it last year or two years ago?

Karola: It was about one year ago.

Louis: How many blog posts have you published there?

Karola: I haven’t done such a good job about it, I think I have 15 articles. What I am doing is I have learned that if you write one article per two weeks and you make it really good, it is worth so much more than having, let’s say, two articles per week.

Louis: That are not good.

Karola: Yes, that’s true.

Louis: You’re focusing on your process which is I’m gonna publish one blog post every two weeks.

Karola: Yes, that’s what I’m trying to do. Sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less. It completely depends on my schedule.

Louis: What type of opportunities did you get out of it? For example, the reason why you’re on this podcast is because I read your blog and I felt comfortable talking to you because you have this blog and you are showing your expertise on a few things. Apart from this opportunity, was there anything else that you manage to get out of this?

Karola: Yes, of course. Actually, all of my clients have found me via this blog. I keep getting new offers, people find the blog, read a couple of articles and then want to work with me. Right now, whenever somebody is asking me how do I get a job in marketing, I just say that you can start blogging and jobs will come in eventually.

Louis: How do you promote your blog, then? How do people discover it?

Karola: It’s mostly SEO. I would say 80% to 90% of the traffic comes from SEO. Right now, I’m getting around 70,000 visitors per month and about 60,000 of them come via SEO.

Louis: That’s huge, I can’t find the words.

Karola: You know what is surprising, Facebook Advertising is such a hot topic in marketing. Actually, there aren’t so many blogs that write a good content about it. Whoever is doing a marketing blog out there, then Facebook Advertising is definitely a really good topic to cover.

Louis: The address of your blog is aggregateblog.com. I would definitely recommend listeners to go on it if they do wanna learn more about Facebook Advertising because you are writing very good in depth articles. I’ve learned quite a few things out of it. Well done and thanks for doing what you’re doing, I think it’s obviously showing that sharing good content and showing your expertise builds up credibility and allows you to have success or whatever it is for you, in your case it’s clients or at least used to be but for others it could be something else. Thanks for sharing that, that’s quite nice to hear.

What do you think marketers should learn today that will help them in the next 10 years, 20 years or even 50 years?

Karola: I wouldn’t say it is some specific ad product, it is rather the entire mindset. You should learn about consumer behavior, human psychology to understand what makes people tick, what makes them buy your product, what makes them feel certain emotions about your product and your messaging. It is more about being really good in communications and understanding people rather than let’s say learning about how to do SEO or how to do Google Ads. That’s a nice technical addition that you need to do on your job. The best marketers I know are the ones who really understand their audience and what people want.

Louis: How would you recommend people to learn that? What are the top three resources you would recommend related to this topic?

Karola: There are some great books about Behavioral Economics. For example, one of my favorite authors is Daniel Kahneman. Also, by doing some advertising, reading a lot, read a lot of books, whatever books you want to read. It can be literature, it can be business books. Learn to see the world from other people’s perspective, that makes a huge difference in your job as a marketer.

Louis: Amen to that. You mentioned this from can you repeat the name of the author that you like, you said?

Karola: It’s Daniel Kahneman. Also, there are more great authors like Seth Godin. There are some advertising classics, for example, Ogilvy’s book that I also wrote the blog article about to condense everything that this book has to say. We can link to it so people can check it out

Louis: Sure, we’ll do that. It will be available in the show notes, as usual, on everyonehatesmarketers.com. Where can listeners connect with you and learn more from you? We already mentioned your blog is the main place you would recommend listeners to go to?

Karola: Yes, definitely, my blog. You can reach out to me via the blog, I’m happy to answer all your questions about Facebook Advertising, the best books to learn more about Facebook Ads or marketing in general. Definitely, get in touch and let me know if you have any questions.

Louis: Once again, Karola, thank you for your patience. As I mentioned at the middle of this episode, we recorded this episode in two parts. Hopefully the full episode makes sense to you. We definitely try to do the best job possible to make it happen. Karola, once again, thank you so much.

Karola: Thanks for having me on the show, it’s been a great conversation

Louis: That’s it for another episode of everyonehatesmarketers.com. This is the moment where I tell you to subscribe to our email list. Before you leave and go to another podcast or listen to another episode, I don’t treat email lists the way people usually treat their email list. I really treat that as a one to one conversation. I’m gonna send you very short personal emails every two weeks, I would say. I’ll inform you guests in advance, I’ll share with you my numbers and how many listeners.

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Thank you so much, once again. Au revoir.