Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast

Louis Grenier:
very weird with you and you'll

Tadhg:
Great,

Louis Grenier:
be fine.

Tadhg:
great.

Louis Grenier:
Others are a bit scared when I do. Anyway.

Tadhg:
I'm a very, very weird person.

Louis Grenier:
I can see, I can tell. Okay. Bonjour, bonjour and welcome to another episode of Everyone Hates Marketers.com, the No Fluff Actionable Marketing Podcast for people sick of marketing bullshit. I'm your host, Louis Grenier. In today's episode, you'll learn how to have the balls to do what you actually want. My guest today is an Irish comedian, actor, writer, and all around weirdo. And during COVID, he started making the type of comedy he always wanted to make, but was too scared of. doing, he's done some very provocative political satire recently, just to give you a couple of titles of his sketches. Israel-Palestine, but it's a house share in Cork, or the British Empire, but it's a school reunion in Cork. Very, very, very funny. He's also been super vocal about mental health and alcoholism in particular. And he just published his biography called The Portrait of a Peace Artist as a Young Man. So, Tiedehi, welcome aboard.

Tadhg:
It's an absolute pleasure. Your accent is so, so sexy. And let's do this.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, we were saying just before recording that my accent is sexy and yours sound like a glitch. Like it sounds like it's something weird with your microphone, but I actually know it's the way

Tadhg:
My accent

Louis Grenier:
you actually

Tadhg:
sounds

Louis Grenier:
talk.

Tadhg:
like a glitch

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
in your accent.

Louis Grenier:
it's like the Irish view on what a French accent sounds like.

Tadhg:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
But, you know, anyway. So have you ever made something you thought people would absolutely fucking love? bombed big time.

Tadhg:
Totally. I've got a perfect example for you. So like before COVID and before all that stuff that you very kindly described about me, the type of comedy I do now, I was in a kind of a hand holding relationship with RT, our national broadcaster here in Ireland, where I sent them some sketches and they were like, oh, that's funny, that's good. There's something interesting there. I had a troupe at the time. There was three of us, it was myself, Dominic McHale and Laura O'Mahony. we had a nice little troupe when we were doing sketches that I felt were clever, but they were still, I still had one eye on them being commercial, if you know what I mean. I had one eye on, at the back of my mind, and sometimes in the front of my mind was like, what would people like here? And so Artie liked that, and then I ended up in a relationship with them where, not a physical relationship, but

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
you

Louis Grenier:
it sounds like

Tadhg:
know,

Louis Grenier:
it.

Tadhg:
although I would have definitely done that for a second season. But we eventually got to a sitcom stage where, we made a sitcom called The School, which I still think is very good. Like I wrote it and I was in it. And as I say, my crew, my cast and crew were in it and they co-wrote bits and pieces, but it was very commercial. And to give you one example that kind of sums the whole thing up, as you can see, I don't have a mad amount of hair. And in this sitcom, the head of comedy suggested that, I wore a wig doing the promo that was a ridiculous wig. Like it's a wig you buy in Cork in a shop called Mad for like a fiver. and I had this wig on while I was teaching the kids, it's set in a school, obviously it's called a school, and he was like, oh my God, that wig is so funny, you've got to keep that for the show. And I was like, well, we're making a mock doc though. Like I'd have to in some way kind of establish why this man has taken to a mad wig, you know, like it makes no sense at all, but he thought it was funny. And that was one of a list of compromises in the project. And I just held my tongue because I was like, I'm making a sitcom at RT. There was some interest from the UK in a second season. And long story short, we never got a second season. We spent about a year trying to get it off the ground. And I had meetings with BBC and they were like, yeah, there's something good in here, but it's a bit commercial. Like it's a bit, you know, I think I've kind of seen this show before. And I was, I just felt like flushing myself down the toilet because I was like, well, this isn't the show that I wanted to make at all. I made this because I thought you guys would give me a second season and it'd be a big success. And everyone would give me a pat on the back. So ultimately it flopped. I think we had three, we had three episodes. We didn't even get the rest of the first season. We never got a second season. And I lost probably a year of my life to bitterness, frustration, self-loathing, and all that lovely stuff.

Louis Grenier:
So in that story, what people want was actually, it wasn't necessarily the Irish audience, but more the people wearing suits in RTE, in BBC and stuff, right?

Tadhg:
Yes, yes. What I imagined the commercial world wants, yeah, what people in suits want, which is for creators is just a dead end. Like I think when you're sitting down trying to think what someone in a suit would want, like there's so much stuff that you can't plan for anyway. Like, you know, there's prevailing trends and. somebody will make a sitcom or a drama about, you know, some lad on a horse in the Faroe Islands or something. And that takes off and then people will be looking for horse comedy for the next year. You know, so you're up against all that stuff. But yeah, and I would I would say as well, I wasn't like a hyper commercial person. I was just somebody who had kind of an eye on it. I was trying to do my style of thing, but also try and tick boxes. And I'm just and this is just from my experience, like I just got nowhere. I got nowhere doing that. I had to just blow the ticking boxes thing out of the water completely and just kind of start again.

Louis Grenier:
So we'll talk about that in the next few minutes, because that turning point, I think, is really interesting. But to set the context a bit more, you said you had a troupe of three of you. So

Tadhg:
Mm.

Louis Grenier:
were you doing improv, comedy? Like, what were you doing exactly with

Tadhg:
Yeah,

Louis Grenier:
those two?

Tadhg:
yeah, we were doing both improv and scripted comedy. And as I say, like Laura and Dom, like excellent supporters are excellent performers, excellent and, you know, coming up with ideas. Like it was a really good troupe, like, but it just didn't express the type of comedy that I wanted to do, I suppose. You know, like I'd come up with like a completely political sketch and a controversial sketch. And as a group, we'd say, well, that really won't work for our audience. And that's true because we built up an audience that expected sketches that had a lot of heart and were playful and they could be quirky, but they weren't hammering the French Empire. Like, you know, they weren't critiquing contemporary British politics or whatever. And I'm not saying that's better or worse or smarter or stupider, but it's just what I kind of secretly always wanted to do. And then I'd stick in a sketch every now and then and the audience would be like, no, you haven't, you didn't say you were doing this at all. And it wouldn't really work. And but yeah, we were doing like and we were quite successful. in an Irish context, certainly in a car context anyway, we were filling out the opera host doing improv comedy. We did a

Louis Grenier:
How many

Tadhg:
light

Louis Grenier:
seats?

Tadhg:
special.

Louis Grenier:
20 seats? 30 seats?

Tadhg:
It's actually 1000 seats mate, yeah. Typical

Louis Grenier:
Look

Tadhg:
French...

Louis Grenier:
at you getting

Tadhg:
..Spanishism.

Louis Grenier:
personal. I... Yeah. Great. No, no. It's a lot of people.

Tadhg:
Ah yeah. No

Louis Grenier:
Was

Tadhg:
one knew

Louis Grenier:
it...

Tadhg:
it was actually a car like me to be honest.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah. Was it... Just to explain maybe the context here, because I've been living in Ireland for a long time, so I understand what you mean here. But for folks who are not, who never lived in Ireland and who don't think they have cousins in Ireland, what is the kind of this... I wouldn't say rivalry, but like the banter between Dublin, the capital city, and Cork, where they think they have the capital city, the real capital city of Ireland. What's the...

Tadhg:
It's,

Louis Grenier:
If

Tadhg:
I

Louis Grenier:
you

Tadhg:
think

Louis Grenier:
have to

Tadhg:
it's,

Louis Grenier:
describe

Tadhg:
I don't

Louis Grenier:
it

Tadhg:
know.

Louis Grenier:
in 30 seconds.

Tadhg:
I don't know if you would agree, but I think it's fairly typical second city syndrome. You know, you get it with like Birmingham or Manchester in London, you get it everywhere really. We, they just get more of the infrastructure, more of the funding, all the kudos, all the big gigs, all the big events. So we double down on the kind of shittier versions of all them that we have. And we kind of like to portray that that's better. I do think there is something about the character that is better though. I would say that it's a finer type of person. And I would say. Stand by that. That's more of a, I suppose, a more of a metaphysical

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
comment, but I do think

Louis Grenier:
right.

Tadhg:
we're better. Anyway, anyway.

Louis Grenier:
Anyway.

Tadhg:
So yeah, so we were getting on quite well. I suppose we were on the precipice of doing very well, like maybe getting a BBC series and kind of breaking out of Ireland. And it just didn't happen. I suppose that that's the bottom line.

Louis Grenier:
The three of you?

Tadhg:
Yeah,

Louis Grenier:
OK. So

Tadhg:
definitely.

Louis Grenier:
was it like those performances you were doing in Co-Oc, was it the main way you were making a living then?

Tadhg:
To be fair, because I was writing, and maybe this is good advice, if you're gonna get in on a project early on and it's not quite what you want to do, at least do as many roles as possible. So I was directing, writing, playing the lead role and exec producing the sitcom. So there was a lot of money pots there. So we like it, we did a relatively small budget, but I did get paid relatively well for the period that I was being kind of groomed, I would say by RT.

Louis Grenier:
But before that, when you were doing those performances in Cork,

Tadhg:
Oh,

Louis Grenier:
was

Tadhg:
yeah.

Louis Grenier:
it the way you were making money?

Tadhg:
Oh,

Louis Grenier:
Was

Tadhg:
yeah.

Louis Grenier:
it the main...

Tadhg:
Yeah, pretty much like I've always been a type of artist that I tried to do a few different things. If I cobbled together a bit of writing, a bit of acting, a bit of stand up, a bit of voiceover, put all those together, I can just about make a living. And as the years have gone on, that the amount coming in from each of those seems to kind of increase. But like I haven't been on the dole for a long time. I've always found a way to like with live comedy or improv or. or wanting just to eat, go to living. It becomes more difficult when you've got a partner and kids and stuff, but I've always just found a way, I suppose, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
So the doll means being on the social welfare.

Tadhg:
I'm sorry you have to clarify a lot of my Irish

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
in the

Louis Grenier:
I

Tadhg:
media.

Louis Grenier:
have to translate. My poor American audience is like, are they even speaking?

Tadhg:
Welfare.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, welfare. Yeah, anyway. Okay, so you then transition from there to trying to sell that sitcom to RT, to BBC, make it mainstream, you were paid then.

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
But then there was clearly a turning point, right? Because... The type of stuff you're doing now feels like, again, it comes from within, right? It's the stuff you wanted to do always,

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
but it's not like it's political satire and it's very spicy for some, I would say. So tell me more about that turning point. Tell me about the before and after. Like what made you say, fuck it? I'm sick of ticking boxes.

Tadhg:
I think I had like not to crack out the violins, there's people going through an awful lot more in the world right now for instance, but I definitely had a bit of like trauma or something after the experience of trying, like pushing this juggernaut up a hill and it not getting up there after the first season of the school. Cause it felt like, yeah, we had kind of soft offers from a few people and then they just kind of fell apart. So it was about a year of trying to get that off the ground. And then I suppose I reflected at the end of that year and thought to myself, okay. I've played the game now for three, four, five years. And the game has resulted in me kind of kicking cannons along the street, kind of going, where has it all gone wrong? And that was my compromise project. And that's where it brought me. So I thought to myself, OK, let's just go back to the drawing board then. Like, what was the first thing? Why did you get involved in comedy? It's mad. If you go back, I find this as well. If you go back to the original things that you were doing, you'll always find the true soul, like of why you're doing it. So for instance, when I went back to having done this commercial comedy wearing a wig and setting the school, which is never remotely a passion of mine, obviously, I decided to do a one man show that was based on my own experience with alcoholism. And I started writing the show when I was still drinking. Now, the politics thing came slightly, slightly later, but I went back to those old notebooks and I'd done some audio recordings of this character and long story short, I was like, okay, this is why I started comedy, because I felt like I could bring a dark area, I could shed light in it and bring levity to it, and that would be interesting, and that would be my in, and that would be my unique contribution, as opposed trying to do something that other people had done somewhat of the same standard, or maybe better in my own kind of way, and you're still ending up with this kind of gray, beige kind of thing that you don't really believe in. So that show, that show about my alcoholism was called In One Out The Other. And I started writing that probably about six months to a year, maybe about six months before COVID kicked in. Or no, it was about a year, I'd say. And anyway, put that show on. And that was the first thing I did, I think, maybe ever in comedy that was like just completely me, exactly what I wanted to do, weird as fuck. Everyone told me, don't do it. Like the people around me were like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing a one man show to 30 people upstairs in a pub in Dublin? And then that became by far the most successful thing that I'd done. Like I toured Ireland and the UK with it and it was like nominated for loads of awards and I got loads of funding and blah, blah.

Louis Grenier:
So let's pause for a second,

Tadhg:
Okay.

Louis Grenier:
because there's so much good shit here. And I want to go one level deeper. But just to pause and reflect on what you just said about, you have to look back at the evidence of the past. The things you've done almost

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
without thinking, they just naturally come to you.

Tadhg:
Mmm.

Louis Grenier:
And I was reading, actually, the biography of Scott Dickers, who created the onion.

Tadhg:
Oh yeah.

Louis Grenier:
He's another beautiful bald man, by the way.

Tadhg:
Oh wow!

Louis Grenier:
You'd get along with him.

Tadhg:
I almost rubbed heads with him. No, I'm a massive fan, though. It's...

Louis Grenier:
And in his book, he said pretty much the exact same thing, which is like, he started to draw at a very young age, like to draw some comics on the back of newspapers his dad would bring home. And in early adulthood, he was completely lost. He didn't know what to do. And then he looked back at all the stuff and all the walls and all the cartoons. He was like, fuck, you know, that's what I was meant to do all along. So that reminds me of that, right?

Tadhg:
Hmm.

Louis Grenier:
So you... Let's go back into that story a bit in terms of how you found that out. So you had this fucking, you were playing a game for four to five years. You felt quite

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
bad about it, right? Like, I mean, you ended up with sour taste, like you didn't

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
enjoy it. And how long after that did you look back in time and look back at those notes you had taken years before?

Tadhg:
I mean, it was shortly afterwards because I felt, you know, after a year of trying to get the project off the ground, I also found myself accidentally in this role of producer because maybe it just goes back to the way the industry is, particularly in Ireland, where everyone has to do everything. And like, I'm not a producer. I just put my name down as a producer because I was in the room when we were at the meetings at RT, you know, it was that type of thing. So I'm not a pound the pavement, knock on the door and try and get the suit guys. enthusiastic about my project. I'm just not that guy. I'm not skillful at it. I'm not looking down at it. I just don't have the skill set. I've seen people who are good at it and they're brilliant, but I'm not one of them. So I suppose it was like a reaction to that. I was like, I need to get as far away from that as possible. A, because I haven't been successful at it. And B, because it's just destroying my soul or something. So again, what? I almost went back into, you know, when I was in school, I used to record tapes on old cassette players and I'd make like weird, I'd play all the roles. It was kind of an offbeat radio show and people would call in and they'd be weird and the presenter was weird and they'd talk about weird topics. But that's the first time that I made myself laugh. And I was like, oh, maybe I can do this kind of thing that I've seen other people do that I love. I almost went back into that kind of mode, and that's where the first, the show about alcoholism kind of came as well, just kind of like weird voices, weird perspective, this guy living in this lonely alcoholic kind of purgatory, and he's best friends with like an ET doll in the attic, and there's a cardboard cutout of Sonia Sullivan, who's one of our sporting heroes, who comes to life and. And that made me, I suppose that rejuvenated me. And I was like, okay, that's me. Like, so I need to just forget about what's gonna work or what people are gonna like. I know that I only have a good chance of being successful. And what I mean by successful is I've made a good, strong piece of work that I can stand by and other people will enjoy. That's the only way you can, for me anyway, that's the only way I've ever been able to measure success. I can only do that if I'm being really honest and really authentic. And yeah, it was definitely a eureka moment. And I was like, whatever happens now going forward. I'm not straying from this path, I have to just do stuff that I think is funny or interesting, even if other people don't.

Louis Grenier:
So that Eureka moment, was it like in the movies, like the cliche of light bulb turning on and you'll be like, oh shit, this is it? Or was it more of a longer reflection that spanned a few weeks?

Tadhg:
It might have been like the first, I think the first or second run of In One Out The Other I did, it was in Dublin and I sold out, it's not a massive venue, but I sold out the Smock Alley like for the week and people were like trying to get tickets to it. So I knew the audience were well into it and then the reviews came out of the show and they were like the best reviews I'd gotten, I'd say for anything. And it was like great art, like you know catharsis, like all these wonderful expressions and I was just laughing to myself thinking this was the nonsense. thing that I put to the bottom of the list because I was like, there's no way I can do that. There's no way they'll like that, whoever they are. You know, so it was just amusing and it was a good learning curve to kind of go sometimes your own, your own instinct is, can go either way. Like there's something even buried beneath the instinct. Like your, your instinct to be a big success can take over and that'll tell you don't do the quirky show about your drink problem. do a show set in a school with a wig, because that's what they'll want. Sorry, I'm kind of a monomaniac about this wig. As you can

Louis Grenier:
I

Tadhg:
see,

Louis Grenier:
can

Tadhg:
I

Louis Grenier:
see

Tadhg:
still

Louis Grenier:
it

Tadhg:
have

Louis Grenier:
really

Tadhg:
residual

Louis Grenier:
traumatize

Tadhg:
drama.

Louis Grenier:
you.

Tadhg:
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I remember sitting in the dressing room and it's Mark Addy just laughing to myself, kind of going, this is the thing that's a hit. I thought that thing was definitely gonna be it. That's why I did it. So I know other people are different, but for me, chasing hits, that. the chasing hits or chasing commercial success idea left my soul in that week or two. Like, and it's been a much better experience, not just making work, but actually being me like since.

Louis Grenier:
So you had the feeling that you were onto something when you started to sell out a few venues. And the critics were actually very, very nice to you and your work and all of that. But you mentioned a few minutes before about how people around you were telling you that it was such a bad idea. So what were they saying to you? They were just saying, this is shit. You shouldn't do it? What type of?

Tadhg:
I'm going to go ahead and turn

Louis Grenier:
stuff

Tadhg:
it

Louis Grenier:
where they're

Tadhg:
off.

Louis Grenier:
telling you when you're talking about your idea of, of doing that.

Tadhg:
Now I have to say, I mean, I have to clarify there, there's close friends of mine and stuff will be like, oh my God, definitely do it. Like support him, whatever you want to do. But if I was talking shop with other comedians, they'd be like, some of them would be, hmm, that sounds a bit off beat, you know? Cause you see, and there's no disrespect to it, but a lot of the time comedians will think, we're in a weird world comedians, because we're not really taken seriously as an art form at all. Like in Ireland, just so your listeners know this, it's actually hopefully changing soon, but in Ireland, if you get an Arts Council application form to apply for money from our Arts Council, comedy is not an option. So I would have to pretend that I was doing theatre when I was really doing comedy to try and get money, a few crumbs off the king's table. So we're seen as this kind of like not quite comedy, not quite art. I don't know what they're doing. So then the only way to go with comedy then is to be very commercial. So I know a lot of comedians that like that mightn't be their number one style of comedy, but they do try and make it as commercial or broad as possible, because if that does click, you're talking about big venues and TV pilots and TV shows. And I mean, there's comedians doing stadiums, as you know, so like you can make an awful lot of money. And so the people who would think that way were probably saying to me a quirky offbeat show where, you know, a carbocutter comes to life and you have dinner with a Christmas turkey. That doesn't sound like it doesn't sound very commercial. So they were giving me what they felt were solid advice. And I suppose it wasn't massively commercial. It's not like it was a smash hit on Broadway, but it was just successful enough for me to eke out a kind of, for the first time, a kind of creative identity for myself, I think. Because I had no identity whatsoever in the RT projects. I was just like comedy man, but there was no style. There was no aesthetic. There was no voice.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, it could have been anyone else.

Tadhg:
Yeah, exactly.

Louis Grenier:
So the reason why I'm asking you this question, and it's so important, is even though your friends, close friends, were very supportive, you only need one person

Tadhg:
Mmm.

Louis Grenier:
to tell you it's a bit offbeat and not too sure, to fuck

Tadhg:
Thank you.

Louis Grenier:
with your ideas and with your motivation and instinct. You know what I mean? That's why it's

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
so important to actually voice that out and say, you did have people who said, I'm not sure.

Tadhg:
Do you know what's funny there? And it's just something, whatever way you put that, it clicked for me what the thing was. I knew when I was messing around with those notes and audio files, I was like, if I'm up on stage doing this, I'm going to be good. I'm going to be good for me, as in I would believe what I'm doing. Whereas I went for so many auditions and I'd be playing small roles and things over the years where, as you say, I was just filling in as comedy man. I never felt like... Oh, I'm going to be really good at this now. I'm going to really show me and show off what I can do because I really believe in it. Whereas with this show, even when people, the one or two people were saying, don't do it, I was kind of thinking to myself, I'm going to be able to shine as me in this show because I believe in the material so much. You know, it's so me like that. I couldn't not be good at it because it's me. There was no prep really, you know what I mean? It was like, it was so part of my soul or something. It was just like getting up and just like opening your mouth and it just flew out. and there was no artifice like there was it wasn't contrived at all. So some when that clicked in my gut, even I think of a hundred people said, don't do it. I was still going to do it.

Louis Grenier:
That's so important to say, right? When something you're about to do, a creative endeavor, like art, whatever that means, right? In the big, big wide sense of the world, if it's important to you and you feel it's gonna be important to others, nothing can really knock you down.

Tadhg:
Mmm.

Louis Grenier:
And I'm not gonna try to compare that podcast that we're on with what you've done. I think it's a different level, but anyway, my little podcast, when I started, no one could have really knocked me down as well. I just had this gut feeling that I really fucking enjoy greeting people and getting their insight and learning from them.

Tadhg:
You're very good

Louis Grenier:
And

Tadhg:
at it.

Louis Grenier:
yeah, you don't have to say that. Fuck off. So

Tadhg:
I love you.

Louis Grenier:
it's like, it's something I do naturally. Like I do prep, but I mean, you'd be surprised how little prep I do. And I could do that for hours, right? And it's easy to take it for granted. of like this kind of weird offbeat type of comedy for granted. But for others, it's the toughest thing to do, right? Some people fucking struggle to have a conversation for more than two minutes. Some people just struggle to do what you're doing. I mean, most people,

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
if not everyone else. So it's so important to recognize that, right?

Tadhg:
I think as well, self-awareness kind of kicks in at some stage in your life if you're lucky. So I hopefully am reasonably self-aware that like maybe earlier in my career I was going for a lot of auditions for drama for instance. And I had to come to the conclusion, it's slightly painful but not that painful because acting was never my number one thing, but I'm a shit actor like. You know, like I'm like, if you were to weigh up what an actor needs to do, so they need to have a really strong command of accents, they need to really believe in the roles they're playing, particularly in drama. So I used to find myself in the odd drama gig I'd get, particularly in theater, I'd be backstage just laughing like, you know, the thought of me doing this role, like pretending to be this earnest person, I was just like, that's ridiculous, you know? So sometimes you've got to cut out the shit as well. Like, as you say, whatever I can do in comedy that works. It's really like kind of evidence-based. When I'm being myself, as in like when the artistic output is reflective of me and who I am and not contrived, it tends to go down very well with people and people respond very well to it. When I used to act in straight drama roles, the odd little thing I get in TV and in theater, I generally don't get a good reaction from the audience. So, you know, you just got to be honest with yourself. Like you can't, I'm not a Renaissance man. Like I'm not, I can't do everything. There's very, there's a tiny, tiny amount of things I can do well. And I think let's do those. And I'm sure you found that the same that like, you know, I'm not blowing smoke up your hole, but you've got a lovely natural way of doing this. This feels like it's a fit. It's a fit for you as opposed, I don't know, interpretive dance or. I don't

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
know

Louis Grenier:
I'm

Tadhg:
what

Louis Grenier:
not good

Tadhg:
it's,

Louis Grenier:
at

Tadhg:
what

Louis Grenier:
that.

Tadhg:
are, what are, what are French people interested in these days? But I think you've found your thing.

Louis Grenier:
So to go back to what you created, right?

Tadhg:
Yeah, let's get

Louis Grenier:
Again,

Tadhg:
back to

Louis Grenier:
you

Tadhg:
me.

Louis Grenier:
said you started to tour in Ireland, in the UK, and whatnot. So tell me more about the success of it. Like you started in pubs with a couple of people, and then it blew up from there. So what are we talking about success-wise?

Tadhg:
Yeah, do you want me to get into the political stuff as well then? Because that's kind of, that starts around this period as well.

Louis Grenier:
Oh yes, we will, but let's close the chapter first.

Tadhg:
Okay, okay. Well, I suppose success is for me, it's like I booked a small tour. We went to like Liverpool, Manchester, London, Cardiff, I think, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and then we'd lot lots of venues in Ireland as well. And about half of those gigs were totally sold out. And I didn't have a profile on my own really before that. I had a profile as part of a sketch group and this was a completely different animal. And like Cahoot's never toured to that extent ever. Like we never went, I think we went to Dublin, we never toured outside Dublin. So we just did Dublin and Cork and one or two venues in County Cork, Galway actually maybe. So we didn't tour extensively. So the success I suppose was that it opened up, it toured kind of endlessly. It opened up lots of other creative doors for me within the theater world and without it. And I also found myself in this nice place where. And I'm doing a follow-up show at the moment with some funding and support of The Everyman in Cork, which is amazing. But I've now found myself in this nice little niche area as well, which is somewhere between comedy and theater, like traditional theater, which was always a passion of mine. Because again, I wanted to get right into that niche. What is it the thing that I can do that's unique? I've spent all this time in comedy, but my background is in theater. What would a kind of a mashup of the two? Because the two worlds don't talk to each other at all. So again, I would kind of count that as a success that I was able to eke out a little niche for myself within this world and get those two worlds talking to each other. Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
So how does it look like, let's say, for folks who haven't seen your show,

Tadhg:
Mm.

Louis Grenier:
including me, what does it look like, this mashup of those two worlds when you perform?

Tadhg:
Like some of the reviews were like at the first 20 minutes of the show, it feels like a weird stand up show. So I don't have a mic, but I'm talking to the audience and I'm this kind of character. My name is Fergal. And as I say, he lives in this kind of world on his own where he's had this horrific background and alcoholism, neglect, poverty and whatnot. But he's in great form. And that's the conceit. Like he's really chipper and he's talking to the audience. as if you were a down and out and you've walked up to somebody in town and you just start talking to them at a bus stop and they can't get away. And that's part of the conceit that they're in the auditorium now and it's locked. So you just have to listen to them. And the stories are funny and bizarre and offbeat but then they're heartbreaking. And there's a catharsis, there's a cathartic moment where he has this reconciliation with his mother. But the first 20 minutes just feels like an absolutely bizarre standup show. But then as it develops, you realize that there is a story running through it. And there is a massive reveal at the end where you realize that you haven't been where you thought you were at all. And theatricality comes in as it goes, where there's music, lights, some light props. And so it's almost like a theatre show emerges from a stand up show.

Louis Grenier:
Nice.

Tadhg:
And here's another thing as well, just as I think of it. And I might shut up at this point about that particular topic. But I found as well when I did comedy clubs that. There's something very tedious I find about comedy's need to get laughs all the time. So like I love offbeat comedians, but like Ireland is very small. So there wasn't really an alternative club scene. You'd have to get laughs all the time in comedy clubs. And I find that tedious, cause I like stories and you know, weird at lavenues and then it's funny at the end. So that's why I pivoted because in theater, they don't know what they, you know, they don't need that. And like somebody can come and see my show and just think that it's a drama. even though I've written loads of jokes, but they just find it sad. That often happens because it's so offbeat. So by creating this little niche for myself, I was able to also protect myself from the fact that I'm not able to write a joke, you know, 10 jokes a minute or whatever the fucking Hollywood demand is.

Louis Grenier:
This is so important. So I might use a couple of buzzwords here in the

Tadhg:
Of

Louis Grenier:
marketing

Tadhg:
course.

Louis Grenier:
world to deconstruct this, but you basically take in conventions from two categories, distinct categories. So like the comedy, theater, and by framing it the right way, exactly as you said, expectations will change, right? If you say it's a startup comedy gig,

Tadhg:
Mmm.

Louis Grenier:
people would expect to laugh a lot. If it's a theater drama type thing, The expectation is not there, right? You don't expect to laugh, right? That much. So by being able to weave in your comedy into a more, you know, theater convention, drama convention, it's actually, you were able to do the best of both worlds that fit your strength, right?

Tadhg:
Totally, that's exactly right. And I found myself, you know, Culture Ireland are our body that give you money to bring a show abroad. So if they find Irish art that's got potential to travel and do Ireland pros, and they support the show. And like they I was really lucky I'd never got supported by them before. And it's a big deal. And they've supported the show so much. But they're supporting it on the on the grounds that it is a drama. Like it's a. It's a weird theatrical drama and even Kieran, who's amazing, has said to me before, you know, there's no way you could build this as a stand up because if people went into this thinking that it's a stand up show, they'd be they'd be in bits, but it's at its very heart. It is a stand up show to me. And I've no problem with putting an audience in bits. And, you know, so, so

Louis Grenier:
Yeah,

Tadhg:
no,

Louis Grenier:
but that's

Tadhg:
you're

Louis Grenier:
not

Tadhg:
exactly

Louis Grenier:
what they

Tadhg:
right.

Louis Grenier:
expect if,

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
but that's not what the category of standup is for them, right? So I

Tadhg:
We

Louis Grenier:
think

Tadhg:
will.

Louis Grenier:
this is what you've done that is extremely smart, which is you give, you first gave people what they think they want, and then you give them what they actually need, you know,

Tadhg:
That's a

Louis Grenier:
and

Tadhg:
lovely

Louis Grenier:
it's

Tadhg:
way of putting

Louis Grenier:
kind

Tadhg:
it.

Louis Grenier:
of,

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
yeah, look, I'm good at my job. You know?

Tadhg:
I'm like, I said that, I'm on record saying that.

Louis Grenier:
But it's an advice I give to clients and everyone who wants to listen, which is like, you can't change people's mind. You can't fuck with their perception of what they think they want. You have to make peace with the fact that you're not God and you can't do that. So the only thing you can do is just lean on what they think they want and then yeah, you can play inside that and fuck it. For example, you think you want a marketing podcast that tells you the latest news or whatever. And that's what you start with. But then actually, no, that's not what you need. What you need is true first principles that will always work, that gives you this confidence to perform in your job from people who are not necessarily marketers by trade, but do marketing better than 99%

Tadhg:
Mm.

Louis Grenier:
of marketers. So

Tadhg:
That's

Louis Grenier:
yeah.

Tadhg:
that's interesting. I have a quick point on that, actually, just as it just as it just to jump ahead a little, but then jump back. So I did in one or the other in Glasgow. And the following I would have in Glasgow would be Republican, anti-monarchy, anti-colonial Celtic fans, pro-Palestine. That would be their politics. And I went and did this absolutely bizarre abstract show about alcoholism. And I largely didn't really tell them what it was about. So I just, and there's no intro, there's no warmup act. I just start the show and you're off into this really weird world. I had a tiny bit of doubt about doing it because I was like, is this kind of slightly unfair? Because they probably expect one thing and I'm giving them like an absolute opposite thing. And I got the best reaction, I think, of the whole tour in Glasgow. So I think we all have a tendency as well to think, you know, to underestimate people's ability to kind of flip between different worlds just because their politics are X. doesn't mean that they won't be enchanted by a show over here, that's why. People are not in boxes at all. Those boxes only exist in your head. Hopefully that might be useful to people.

Louis Grenier:
What type of reaction did you get in Glasgow? You said it was the best.

Tadhg:
I suppose what I didn't realise is that like at the very core of it, as surreal as it is, the show is about alcoholism and it's about family being the child of alcoholic parents and poverty and all that jazz. And Glasgow is a city that really understands all those themes. It's also a city that really has a great ability to laugh at itself and this kind of gorgeous, rich, dark humour. So actually, show was perfect, was perfect for them. But again, I suppose I underestimated kind of thinking, oh, they'll be a bit like, oh, why isn't he singing kind of Celtic songs and stuff, you know. We all just have that, I think I certainly had that tendency to kind of underestimate what people will think of something, but the reaction to it was like, I don't know how many people came up afterwards saying, and have gotten touch afterwards saying, you know, my family member or someone belonged to me. you know, has a really or passed away through alcoholism. And, you know, they had a really fucking bizarre sense of humor. And I think they would have got a kick out of that. Or I'm going to tell my friend to come and see the show. I don't think they're ready to go to an A.A. meeting yet, but they might see your show and that something might spark off them. So like and in terms of success, to go back to the word success, like I never, ever have felt so successful in my life as when I was getting that type of reaction from people, because like, it's not all about money, like, you know what I mean? It's it's like at the end of the day. you want to feel like the thing you're doing has some sort of utility outside of cash, you know, that there was some purpose to it, you know, so like it's very satisfying experience for to get a reaction like that.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, cash is a by-product of it, but if you focus on cash, then you don't get the actual intended effect, which is to be important for others, to make an impact, to help them a bit. No, I absolutely fucking love that. I was reading the reviews of what you created. I don't even know how to name it, but yeah, there is great art of vital catharsis. I laughed

Tadhg:
Yes.

Louis Grenier:
until I cried. Go see it. That's a nice summary of what you started to describe,

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
right?

Tadhg:
Yeah, nice view, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
Okay. So I think what you've nailed is first is your ability to like take conventions from two different categories and mix them up a bit and to be able to position it to position that you're in the right way so that people will actually be willing to go see it. What I really like as well, and I don't know how you interpret that nowadays, not that you have the kind of the result of it, but you said it yourself, you weren't known, right? Like. you didn't sell it thanks to your name, right? Some movies and whatever, you don't even fucking need to tell the title. Like as long as you know that Sylvester Stallone is playing, you'll go see it. But that's quite the opposite for you. So how do you explain that, the fact that you are not known and yet you sold out in most venues

Tadhg:
If you're

Louis Grenier:
in Ireland

Tadhg:
doing,

Louis Grenier:
and in the UK?

Tadhg:
yeah, like if you're doing a few nights, there was a few places where we did a few nights and this is always a testament to, if a show is strong enough, you get word of mouth and word of mouth also works on social media. So like there's no, in my experience, and obviously there's people listening to this and you'll know a lot more than I do, but there's nothing to match word of mouth. You know, so if somebody comes to see the first night and they say, this is an amazing show, you have to get to see it. And if you got like five or six comments like that and you retweet them even, I found that the next night then would take care of itself. You know, so you could have 70 people in a room, but if say 10 or 15 or 20 of them loved it and are public about it, you could easily sell out the rest of the run. And like the opposite is also true. Like. Like I have some little bit of a name now, but the name alone won't make a good show. Like the show still needs to be strong and people won't, you can, you know, you can depreciate the amount that the name will garner for you as well, if the show isn't strong. So they come and see you and they're not mad about the show, then they won't come the next time. So it always has to be the quality of the show and. As I say, like word of mouth is still the strongest tool that we have. I feel, you know, you got to back up the gimmicks. Like I had one gimmick in, I'm pretty good with gimmicks actually, to be fair to me. So one gimmick for instance, was we were in Belfast. I'd sold out three or four shows in Belfast, the total of like, I don't know, 500 people or something. And they were sold out well in advance. And I was only doing one night in Derry. and Derry capacity was 120 and I'd only sold 60 tickets and it was like the night before the show. So I did a video, again, this would be my stylist was saying, effectively accusing people from Derry in a subtle way of being tight and saying that I'd come up the north and people in Belfast had really backed me. You know, you can't get a ticket for the show, it's sold out, we had to put on extra shows. And now I've come to Derry, you've asked me to come here. and yet the 60 tickets left. I just don't understand. We're all in the same socio-economic situation. You know, that kind of shtick. And it got lots of people being very angry, but a lot of people knew that the intent was good. It was mischievous. So you've got to take risks as well, I think. You know, you've got a night to go. You've got to sell 60 tickets, man. I'm going to take a risk. And if it risks insulting people in Derry, I've no problem with that. Because the people I'll insult will be the kind of people who'd be insulted anyway. And the people who know me know that I love Derry and I'm up regularly and it's playful. So, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
So moving on to the other thing that you've been doing during COVID and after, which is you would call it like a political satire, which, yeah, I think is a fair description of it, provocative political satire. How did that come about?

Tadhg:
That is literally a COVID thing. So I had this tour for In One Out The Other, part of it was done, and then I had this other ream of gigs coming up. I felt like I was on my way, I'd found my little voice, then COVID kicked in, and I felt like the world was kind of imploding. And there was something in that, that again, it felt like that moment with RT not working out where you're kicking cans along the road, where it was like, okay, everything's kind of fucked again now, so. what I'll do altogether is, you know, for my own sanity, I'll make sketches that I always wanted to do because a lot of my online output up to that point had been cahoots, it had been, again, I say commercial, just to say like, it's not like, you know, slap and tickle comedy, it was just comedy that we had one eye on what people would like. So I was like, no, do you know what I'll do? I'll just make sketches about British imperialism, I'll make sketches, I'll make sketches about all the stuff that I was reading and watching my whole life. You know, it's mad the way that you get so compartmentalized in your head. Like if I sat down for pleasure, I'd be watching documentaries about the French Algerian War. Like that's the stuff that I do for pleasure. And I read like books about colonialism and racism and all this kind of stuff. And I never saw the opportunity to marry that and comedy before. In my mind, they lived in separate boxes in my head and they should never the two should meet like. So in Covid

Louis Grenier:
Do you know

Tadhg:
I

Louis Grenier:
what

Tadhg:
was

Louis Grenier:
I

Tadhg:
like,

Louis Grenier:
call this phenomenon?

Tadhg:
yeah.

Louis Grenier:
I call it the SpongeBob technique, the SpongeBob phenomenon. Because the guy who created SpongeBob was a marine biologist

Tadhg:
Oh,

Louis Grenier:
who

Tadhg:
wow, I didn't know-

Louis Grenier:
also loved cartoons and shit. And he started to educate his, he was teaching marine biology after, to make his kids and his students actually like it. He started to create little stories about it. Anyway,

Tadhg:
I didn't

Louis Grenier:
yeah.

Tadhg:
know that

Louis Grenier:
So it's...

Tadhg:
and that makes more sense, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
There's like the mixing, there's what's his name, there's someone else who call it idea sex as well. You know, you take two things that have nothing to do with each other, you marry them and see what happens like ninja turtles.

Tadhg:
Yes, yes, yes.

Louis Grenier:
You know, but the Spongebob thing is I would add a layer deeper, which is actually mixing things that yeah, you love doing or that you are interested in and all your skills and see what happens when you, you know, even if you feel they are. compartmentalize, if you decompartmentalize them, remove

Tadhg:
Yes.

Louis Grenier:
the artificial barriers, what happens, you know?

Tadhg:
Yes, exactly. That's such a lovely way of putting it. Yeah. And there's an authenticity to SpongeBob as well. That that makes perfect sense now that you've told me that because I didn't I didn't realize that, but it makes perfect sense. And I suppose I found when I took something that I was always interested in and put some funny on it again, it would be the risk there is like to go back to the risk of all along the way, like you do something that your buddies are saying that won't work out or, you know, there's always an element of risk, like, say with the marketing thing. The risk here is that it's a tricky area, you're gonna get lots of shit online, and in Ireland, as you probably know by now, we're actually a little bit squeamish about too much kind of colonial stuff. It's almost harder to kind of like bash the Brits in Ireland in some quarters in Ireland than it is in the UK. Like I've got more followers and fans, I think, in the UK for a long, long time than I have in Ireland, because most lefties in the UK are mad to have their colonial past. you know, taking the piss out of. So there's risk there, you're gonna get shit online. So I had to weigh that up. I'm like, okay, whatever, I'm gonna get some shit. But at the end of the day, I don't know if there's any appetite for this anyway, I might as well just throw it out. And like the first two or three sketches I did, like all got over a million views on Twitter. And that would be like, for me, the harder one to get the traction on was Twitter at the time. It just seemed harder, it was more demanding or something. The audience were more demanding. And like... pretty much everything changed for me after that, then suddenly you're getting asked to do all sorts of things. Like it opened up production company doors in the UK and it had ticket sales and it has given me a kind of a brand, I suppose, of stuff that I do. But yeah, again, like it just comes down to do the thing that you want to do. And don't, like, I suppose if somebody had told me before I released the first sketch that a sketch about Brexit. with a bunch of lads sitting in my front room, each playing like one of the home countries and then another one playing Ireland. If that sketch would get like millions of views and would be on BBC the night that it was released and would get me like a couple of death threats as well, I would have thought, ah, come on man, come off the stage. Like up until that point, I'd been getting like maybe a few thousand or 10,000 views on sketches. If I got a hundred thousand, I'd be somersaulting. And the day that Briggs' sketch came out, I think it was out like about two hours. And I went out to do a voiceover gig and I checked my phone and I had like half a million views. And I genuinely was like, something's wrong with the app. This is definitely like the app's broken or I've somehow imported someone else's phone. Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
So when you realized that there was half a million views within a couple of hours and you realized that it was for real, how did you react?

Tadhg:
Of course you're excited. I mean, I'm an addict as well, you know what I mean? So that's the other thing. Like I've written a book about addiction. So like the numbers on particularly on if you're if you're on a desktop the numbers on Twitter when something's going viral, it's like a it's like a roulette. You know, like the numbers are going on. And it feels like you're the dopamine hit is kind of unreal. So that's another journey. I mean, maybe that's another that's another podcast. Like you have to get your head around that. And also know that, you know, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Then if your next sketch doesn't get 20 million views, you're suddenly a failure. But you just got to look at the big picture, I suppose. And like, again, something that's going on for me at the moment is I pivoted to Instagram because Twitter felt like it was kind of imploding there, kind of post-Musk. And again, I'm starting from because technically I'm not strong at all. So I had to sit down with a young creator like he's also bald, which has made me feel a bit better. But it was like talking to the kids, you know, he was like telling me what to do. And one of his first tips for me on Instagram was like. turn your camera around, like shoot stuff vertically. Like we're all shooting stuff vertically for like three, four years. And I was like, really? Okay.

Louis Grenier:
Where

Tadhg:
What?

Louis Grenier:
have you been, you old fuck? You know?

Tadhg:
I was

Louis Grenier:
Like...

Tadhg:
like, I obviously was just under the bed or something like, but again though, I pivoted my camera and I shot the same shit though. It was the same things that I was passionate about. And they've landed big time. Like, I'm talking to people here and nobody can believe this. Like. I felt that I would never be an Instagram guy, right? Because I've done a few colonial sketches and I've posted on Twitter kind of going, oh, look, the Insta huns have no interest in the kind of Elgin marbles and Benin bronzes sketches that I'm doing. But that's because I didn't flip the bloody camera because I've now done sketches there about Israel-Palestine that... I started off Instagram, because I really just started working on it this year. And at this, like say in April this year, I had two or 3000 followers and I have like 70,000 followers now from a series of videos that are all completely me, like as sharp and as spicy as you said in your introduction, as spicy as I can almost do. And they're absolutely flying. Why? To go back to your SpongeBob example, because people can feel my passion in it. They can feel my authenticity. And I would argue as well they can feel my heart. My heart is in it. I'm not doing it. Nobody sits down to do a pro Palestine piece to try and boost their career. You know what I mean? Nobody does that in this fucking climate.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, you're doing it for a reason. And when you give people, when you make it clear about your point of view, when you make it clear about why you're here, why you're doing this, that you're not just doing it for no reason, that it's not just random. I think people understand that, right?

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
It's like it gives them a reason, it gives them control, a feeling of control, feeling of, okay, I get this guy, I get this person, I know why they are here, and it gives them comfort as well, which is also something I try to advise. clients, people in general, which is the, that's why you need a narrative of some sort. You need a point of view. You need to be willing to say, I agree or disagree because it gives the reason why you're here. And that creates this sense of

Tadhg:
Exactly.

Louis Grenier:
control.

Tadhg:
That's such a good way of putting it. Yeah. And actually on that one, one thing I was going to say today, like that I found useful and other people will disagree with it. But don't jump too quick, I would say to creators or marketers when you get that little bit of success. And social media is a great example of it. People will come in early if you get a certain amount of numbers and they'll say they'll offer you paid partnerships. and they'll offer you collaborations and all that kind of stuff. And initially the money is, you know, most people are probably struggling like myself. The money can be good, but you don't want somebody coming in too early and trying to coax what you're doing. Cause again, then you fall back into the old hole of, and then you're like, oh, what'll Ribena want me to do with this video or what'll KFC want me to do with that video? Like if you can say solvent a little bit, I would say stick to your guns, especially when your growth is big because just maintain what you're doing. And you'll get to a point with the growth where the offers coming in won't want to suck your soul out your arse. Like you can keep your own identity without

Louis Grenier:
..

Tadhg:
kind of, because I see it with some of the younger influencers and I wish I could pull them aside and some of them are amazing kids and stuff and are getting into the paid partnership thing too early in my opinion. And then the videos are starting to be shit. And the only person who'll get a blame for that is them. Nobody's going to send a message to the corporates going, oh, you've ruined that young man or young woman's brand. they don't give a shit, like they'll just screw you and then you're left kind of going, oh, why does no one like my stuff anymore and call me cheesy and a sellout?

Louis Grenier:
So yeah, don't go early, too early with them accepting their demands, but by all means, even if you have a small enough audience and some brands are interested, stick to your guns right away. So listen, if you sponsor me or whatever, I'm not gonna change anything. You can't tell me, you know, keeping your creative

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
kind of strengths. That reminds me of Daft Punk, you know, obviously they're French, obviously. It's the best electronic duo in the world. And

Tadhg:
course.

Louis Grenier:
that's what they did from the start, which was very interesting. One of the dads, the father of one of the two members was a nat guy, like advertising and all.

Tadhg:
Ah.

Louis Grenier:
So he knew, he knew like how to create a brand from the start. Right. And he advised them to never give, relinquish any creative control to labels or anything like that. So from the very start, even when they were not known,

Tadhg:
Wow.

Louis Grenier:
day, they were like, nope, you can't, you can help us promote or whatever, but we do what we do.

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
And that's, I think, a good advice to folks out there.

Tadhg:
Definitely, I think is, you know, early days as well, I'd be asked to do corporates. Like it doesn't happen to me at all now. Like I get offered very few paid partnerships these days because people don't want to get involved. In fact, I find it hard to collaborate with charities genuinely, because people are like, oh, we

Louis Grenier:
Well.

Tadhg:
just need to be, we need to be seen to be like, you know, impartial. But you're so right. If somebody, I think what happens as well is like, somebody asks you to do something and they even, they imagine what it's going to be like, and then you do the thing. And like, I don't know how many times early days I get asked to do things where they'd say, oh, we're looking for something a bit, you know, provocative, like, you know, and I'd be like, okay, cool. And you'd send them the script and they're like, oh no, this is, this would, we'd lose all our jobs. We put this out, you know, so. And you just have this to and fro that's kind of, I'm a long, long race guy. I'm a, it's a marathon, not a sprint type of guy. And actually another quick thing there, what I think of it is, you can actually start to sell out. by doing your own stuff as well. And what I mean by that is, you have to be careful not to try and replicate even your own stuff. That's not the original impetus of the idea. You know, like David Lynch talks about, the original idea is perfect, it's beautiful. And then what he's trying to do with his film is to stay as close to that as possible, to not get in the way of the original idea with all the fucking cameras and art design and actors and stuff like, they're just vessels for the original idea. So sometimes what I did, the mistake I made early days, like I'd make a sketch and it would be about British imperialism set, you know, but it's a fight in school or something. And I'd misunderstand that the essence of it was about the conflict between the characters. It didn't necessarily need to be in a school every time. It didn't necessarily need to have this funny T-shirt all the time, but I was trying to replicate the actual thing. And then they weren't going down as well. And I was like, oh no, what is the trick? There is no trick. If there is a trick, it's to try and get to the essence of the idea. Like I watched one of your previous episodes. I can't remember the guest, but you know, he was saying that point as well. But ideas are just everywhere. And I really agree with that. And you're just trying to like run home and get the idea down, distill it before it disappears. And that's the way to go, I think, rather than remember now, Ty, last time we shot this guy from that angle and you were wearing that Hawaiian shirt, so we need to do that again, because that's what people are not that stupid. In my opinion, they're not like, no, he doesn't have the Hawaiian

Louis Grenier:
Great.

Tadhg:
shirt. You know, we really underestimate people. I think that's the biggest problem in content creation of content and marketing, I think.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, you don't want to feed everything to them. Let them fill the gaps, right, as well. But

Tadhg:
Yeah.

Louis Grenier:
what talks to me when you said that is the human brain is very good at trying to find patterns and logically explain things in hindsight. But if you zero in the wrong elements, the wrong reasons why this worked, like you described, like, oh, it worked because you were in school, or it worked because I had a funny t-shirt, then you actually f***ed up. you know, you shoot yourself in the foot. It might, it just worked because as you said, there's this, there was this conflict, the two characters and whatnot, and that's it. So it's, yeah, you need to be very careful with that as well. Look, I could talk to you for fucking six hours

Tadhg:
Noveling

Louis Grenier:
and I

Tadhg:
it

Louis Grenier:
might,

Tadhg:
then, yeah.

Louis Grenier:
actually I might stop the recording and keep going, but I'm conscious of your time. So last question for you. If, let's say you're talking to marketers, in general, so like even content creators, influencers, or whatever you want to call it, artists. What do you think they should learn today that will help them in the next 10, 20, 50 years?

Tadhg:
I think the number one thing is to listen to people because like people observing people and what they do and what they say, like that's the number one thing that I have found useful I have to say. And observing your own like soul without being too pretentious about it. Like what is the thing that like gets you going? Like what is the thing that behooves you? Like what's the essence? So many times I've seen marketing and create and content create creation mess up the original thing. So I've seen, for instance, an idea for even take an ad. I've been in the process where somebody is coming up with an idea for an ad and then left in the wrong hands. That the actual product that you see on television is shit. Like it's so shit because they have trampled over the essence thing and they've just gone, oh, I'll put my little touch in it. And again, like I'm probably repeating myself, but These ideas are emerging. I'm a meditator, by the way. So in Transcendental Meditation, we really believe that, like I pretty much just did it because David Lynch and Jerry Seinfeld were doing it. But there is that belief that the ideas are everywhere. Nobody owns them. And they're kind of perfect. If you manage to catch them, they're perfect. So you need to do everything in your power. to get out of the way of the idea. You're a custodian of the idea. Like you have very little to do with making it better or worse. You just need to kind of save it from slipping out of your hands. And I think marketers definitely forget that. You know, I'll give you one, another quick example. You'd often get comedians brought in to do voiceovers for ads. So I'm asked to do voiceovers, go bad. And I'm very, very grateful for the money and it's brilliant. And I'd say for young actors, like don't. discount the voiceover work because it's well paid and it doesn't take up much of your time. I would say get into it, like it's a great stream of income. But I often get asked to do ads that are not funny. They're not, they're really poorly written. And I'm like, you're getting the comedian in, but you're getting them in at the wrong stage, in my opinion, like, because you've got a marketeer who's writing it again. And I can, because I've been there, I can feel in my own head. the script that he's writing, he's writing it for someone else. He's writing it for a mom in Middle Ireland, which doesn't exist. Like it's like fucking Lord of the Rings stuff. And who's listening to the radio going, Oh, my God, that's amazing. I'm going to buy that. None of these things exist in the real world. I would say get the comedian in to write it, because that's what comedians do. They can make it funny when you're trying to make a funny ad and then get some polished lad to read it. Don't get the comedian to read it like. And so, yeah, that's a long way of saying get out of the way. Get out of the way of the idea.

Louis Grenier:
Yeah, ideas are fragile as well, so don't fuck with them. I agree. Ty, you've been, yeah, it's been such a good conversation.

Tadhg:
Yeah, I really

Louis Grenier:
I

Tadhg:
enjoy

Louis Grenier:
really,

Tadhg:
it man.

Louis Grenier:
really enjoy it. I can feel like when we're going to edit it back and all of that, there's so many spicy shit we're going to be able to use on

Tadhg:
That's good.

Louis Grenier:
YouTube and Instagram and all of that. Anyway, where can people learn more from you, maybe see you on stage one of these days, connect with you, all of that?

Tadhg:
Yeah, so it's tygthghighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighighigh

Louis Grenier:
Awesome.

Tadhg:
Thank you so much buddy, that was a pleasure.